# The Ruby AI Podcast | Def Method > Conversations about AI's impact on the software craft, Ruby tools, and the engineering systems teams need as implementation accelerates. Podcast # The Ruby AI Podcast AI's impact on Ruby, software craft, and the engineering systems teams need as implementation accelerates The podcast explores AI's impact on the craft. Def Method applies that thinking to high-stakes modernization work where governance, understanding, and evidence matter. [GUIDE](https://www.defmethod.com/guide-principles) ![The Ruby AI Podcast](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/ruby-ai-podcast-artwork-04aa6ef3e79407408f09b7d0b56ec5e1ed6029d83ca09739dd4c92c0ca7cabbf.jpg) ## Subscribe New episodes every other week. [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/7zCL1pe3CwJ4Sdun2jR5os) [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ruby-ai-podcast/id1792967365) [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@therubyaipodcast) ### Hosted by ![Joe Leo](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/joe-leo-headshot-13a12a4cb17a31cc720de43d726dc347bd1a4a930a25c3f4c23bbf5f7f30a0fa.jpg) Joe Leo Def Method ![Valentino Stoll](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/valentino-stoll-headshot-1f516c632de8623816fc15409fe93f01f822677c77cbead33d250af7766236ca.jpg) Valentino Stoll Co-host ## All Episodes [![Minerva Magic: OpenClaw, Agent Status Pages, and Training an AI Coworker in Ruby on Rails](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_20-66eea129525a7de4a2d0b6cb9989f5e0674ba5c9d24a322c7c2de25aa6600384.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-20-minerva-magic-openclaw-agent-status-pages-and-training-an-ai-coworker-in-ruby-on-rails) Episode 20 April 28, 2026 ### [Minerva Magic: OpenClaw, Agent Status Pages, and Training an AI Coworker in Ruby on Rails](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-20-minerva-magic-openclaw-agent-status-pages-and-training-an-ai-coworker-in-ruby-on-rails) with Valentino Stoll & Joe Leo What happens when you treat an AI agent like a co-founder instead of a tool? Valentino and Joe go deep into a real-world experiment: spinning up an autonomous agent using OpenClaw, giving it domains, goals, and just enough guidance to build an actual business. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-20-minerva-magic-openclaw-agent-status-pages-and-training-an-ai-coworker-in-ruby-on-rails) [![You Can't Vibe-Code Trust: Scaling AI Safely with Bekki Freeman](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_19-0f5f535d1b2e438e8c62e623ad58272c2e448dd421c36ae8d02a757a3f5cca48.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-19-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-scaling-ai-safely-with-bekki-freeman) Episode 19 April 07, 2026 ### [You Can't Vibe-Code Trust: Scaling AI Safely with Bekki Freeman](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-19-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-scaling-ai-safely-with-bekki-freeman) with Bekki Freeman Bekki Freeman, staff software engineer at Caribou Financial and organizer of Rocky Mountain Ruby, joins Joe and Valentino to discuss safely scaling AI use in an 8-year Rails monolith—and what AI can and can't replace in real engineering work. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-19-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-scaling-ai-safely-with-bekki-freeman) [![You Can't Vibe-Code Trust: Why Real SaaS Still Wins in the AI Era](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_18-3e1fe16d537280f116265041c3c6a48944890f940f9a9be4430902046a0e9df1.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-18-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-why-real-saas-still-wins-in-the-ai-era) Episode 18 March 24, 2026 ### [You Can't Vibe-Code Trust: Why Real SaaS Still Wins in the AI Era](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-18-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-why-real-saas-still-wins-in-the-ai-era) with Kelly Sutton Kelly Sutton, CTO and co-founder of Scholarly, joins Valentino and Joe to discuss building vertical SaaS for higher ed, why trust and compliance can't be vibe-coded, and how AI is transforming both the product and the engineering team behind it. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-18-you-cant-vibe-code-trust-why-real-saas-still-wins-in-the-ai-era) [![CRMs Don't Have to Suck: Rebuilding Business Software with AI and Ruby](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_17-874afed14bd5ed367edc74e73c628329e90468c86b72308dc8a31ee39f8f1bcb.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-17-crms-dont-have-to-suck-rebuilding-business-software-with-ai-and-ruby) Episode 17 March 10, 2026 ### [CRMs Don't Have to Suck: Rebuilding Business Software with AI and Ruby](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-17-crms-dont-have-to-suck-rebuilding-business-software-with-ai-and-ruby) with Thomas Witt Thomas Witt, founder of Vendis.ai and operator of Expedite Ventures, joins Joe and Valentino to discuss why thin AI wrappers won't last, how an AI-native CRM might replace forms with conversations, and the architecture behind AI-heavy production systems built with Ruby on Rails. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-17-crms-dont-have-to-suck-rebuilding-business-software-with-ai-and-ruby) [![Innovating Development: The Future of GitHub Agents and AI in Rails](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_16-7d6b6e970759c5c2d887f7fafec6b5cdc20a121f2d4299c041460a2a1e10704e.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-16-innovating-development-the-future-of-github-agents-and-ai-in-rails) Episode 16 February 24, 2026 ### [Innovating Development: The Future of GitHub Agents and AI in Rails](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-16-innovating-development-the-future-of-github-agents-and-ai-in-rails) with Kinsey Durham Grace Kinsey Durham Grace, member of GitHub's Coding Agent Core team, joins Joe and Valentino to discuss Agent HQ, the realities of agentic workflows in large Rails monoliths, custom agents for team-specific knowledge, and what it means to be a well-rounded developer in the age of AI. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-16-innovating-development-the-future-of-github-agents-and-ai-in-rails) [![New Year, New Ruby: Agents, Wishes, and a Calm Ruby 4](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_14-3b2db9f2b4605e6378b06fe6393cd8fed05458be195c4c501ca948386220f53f.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-14-new-year-new-ruby-agents-wishes-and-a-calm-ruby-4) Episode 14 January 27, 2026 ### [New Year, New Ruby: Agents, Wishes, and a Calm Ruby 4](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-14-new-year-new-ruby-agents-wishes-and-a-calm-ruby-4) Ruby turns 30, Ruby 4 quietly ships, and the AI tooling arms race shows signs of maturity. Valentino and Joe unpack what stability really means for a language in its third decade, debate agent-driven development, AI “slop,” binary distribution, and whether open source incentives are breaking down—or simply evolving. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-14-new-year-new-ruby-agents-wishes-and-a-calm-ruby-4) [![Real vs. Fake AI with Evan Phoenix](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_13-22aa8237756803b07891ecdd025a0b82858bd103ffd57520ee12ed3f564636fd.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-13-real-vs-fake-ai-with-evan-phoenix) Episode 13 January 06, 2026 ### [Real vs. Fake AI with Evan Phoenix](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-13-real-vs-fake-ai-with-evan-phoenix) with Evan Phoenix In this episode of the Ruby AI podcast, hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo engage with Evan Phoenix, a seasoned Ruby programmer and CEO of Mirren. The conversation explores Evan's unique name origin, his career trajectory, and the integration of AI in development workflows. They discuss the distinction between real and fake AI in products, the impact of AI on engineering practices, and the future of AI in development tools. Evan shares insights on performance optimization, human-centric AI intera [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-13-real-vs-fake-ai-with-evan-phoenix) [![Running Self-Hosted Models with Ruby and Chris Hasinski](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_12-1b5f32a7c495f3a3ca7ca8fadb99d26c7e4a4c7b1fea06efd024ff49d67588f8.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-12-running-self-hosted-models-with-ruby-and-chris-has) Episode 12 December 02, 2025 ### [Running Self-Hosted Models with Ruby and Chris Hasinski](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-12-running-self-hosted-models-with-ruby-and-chris-has) with Chris Hasinski In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-12-running-self-hosted-models-with-ruby-and-chris-has) [![The Latent Spark: Carmine Paolino on Ruby’s AI Reboot](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_11-b16cd18cc1eb2b0c1a8147d0e68963c35b252c2071f1befaf9bb24996bfa8b77.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-11-the-latent-spark-carmine-paolino-on-rubys-ai-reboo) Episode 11 November 18, 2025 ### [The Latent Spark: Carmine Paolino on Ruby’s AI Reboot](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-11-the-latent-spark-carmine-paolino-on-rubys-ai-reboo) with Carmine Paolino In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, hosts Joe Leo and his co-host interview Carmine Paolino, the developer behind Ruby LLM. The discussion covers the significant strides and rapid adoption of Ruby LLM since its release, rooted in Paolino's philosophy of building simple, effective, and adaptable tools. The podcast delves into the nuances of upgrading Ruby LLM, its ever-expanding functionality, and the core principles driving its design. Paolino reflects on the personal motivations and communi [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-11-the-latent-spark-carmine-paolino-on-rubys-ai-reboo) [![Building Futures: AI, Careers & the Rails Ahead with Avi Flombaum](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_10-f404e715a7e885a7c15848b54b411f7ee8288ac1a763d6aeedc8bacd74e03785.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-10-building-futures-ai-careers-the-rails-ahead-with-a) Episode 10 November 04, 2025 ### [Building Futures: AI, Careers & the Rails Ahead with Avi Flombaum](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-10-building-futures-ai-careers-the-rails-ahead-with-a) with Avi Flombaum In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo are joined by Avi Flombaum, the founder of Flatiron School. Avi talks about the origins of Flatiron, the success it achieved, and the educational methods used to teach programming, emphasizing on the importance of understanding code deeply and leveraging AI efficiently. He discusses the challenges and changes in the industry, particularly with the rise of AI, and provides insight into modern workflows and product developme [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-10-building-futures-ai-careers-the-rails-ahead-with-a) [![The TLDR of AI Dev: Real Workflows with Justin Searls](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_9-eb060034763bfdd97b29b36c18d16f707faef93416a07c2c9eea8c7a8bd34952.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-9-the-tldr-of-ai-dev-real-workflows-with-justin-sear) Episode 9 October 21, 2025 ### [The TLDR of AI Dev: Real Workflows with Justin Searls](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-9-the-tldr-of-ai-dev-real-workflows-with-justin-sear) with Justin Searls In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, co-hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo engage in a lively discussion with guest Justin Searls. They explore the evolving landscape of software development with agentic AI tools, comparing traditional agile methodologies with emerging AI-driven practices. Justin Searls his experiences with refactoring and the challenges of integrating AI tools into development workflows. The conversation touches on the suitability of AI in coding, philosophical perspectives o [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-9-the-tldr-of-ai-dev-real-workflows-with-justin-sear) [![Real-World Ruby AI: Practical Systems That Work](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_8-9914f65874059e1838417809bca0017543a2d5005ef1a244014821e6a2c1fc5b.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-8-real-world-ruby-ai-practical-systems-that-work) Episode 8 October 07, 2025 ### [Real-World Ruby AI: Practical Systems That Work](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-8-real-world-ruby-ai-practical-systems-that-work) with Amanda Bizzinotto In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, co-hosts Joe Leo and Valentino Stoll, alongside guest Amanda Bizzinotto from Ombu Labs, delve into the ongoing controversy within the Ruby community involving Ruby Central, Shopify, and Bundler/Ruby Gems. While both Valentino and Amanda share their perspectives on the situation, the conversation swiftly transitions into Amanda's journey and current work in AI and machine learning at Ombu Labs. The episode highlights various AI initiatives, including the cr [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-8-real-world-ruby-ai-practical-systems-that-work) [![Contracts and Code: The Realities of AI Development](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_7-5090fdb68d8f656574173c1afb493f59ceee7e309898243c31ad3d9862b4b139.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-7-contracts-and-code-the-realities-of-ai-development) Episode 7 September 23, 2025 ### [Contracts and Code: The Realities of AI Development](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-7-contracts-and-code-the-realities-of-ai-development) In this episode, Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo unpack the widening gap between headline-grabbing AI salaries and the day-to-day realities of building sustainable AI products. From sports-style contracts stuffed with equity to the true cost of running large models, they explore why incremental gains often matter more than hype. The conversation dives into the messy art of benchmarking LLMs, the fresh evaluation tools emerging in the Ruby ecosystem, and new OpenAI features that change how prompts, t [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-7-contracts-and-code-the-realities-of-ai-development) [![Rails After the Robots: Chad Fowler on AI as the Next Abstraction](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_6-465979bfae5a43ac90fa84f910fd586a984193058102b0ea0e56705a6599514c.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-6-rails-after-the-robots-chad-fowler-on-ai-as-the-ne) Episode 6 September 09, 2025 ### [Rails After the Robots: Chad Fowler on AI as the Next Abstraction](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-6-rails-after-the-robots-chad-fowler-on-ai-as-the-ne) with Chad Fowler Veteran Rubyist and investor Chad Fowler sits down with hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo to unpack why generative AI is less a magic trick and more the next big layer of abstraction. From his days rewriting Wunderlist in multiple languages to today’s LLM-driven code generation, Chad explains how small, well-typed modules, strong conventions and agent-based workflows could let humans design systems while machines write the code. The trio debate Python vs. Ruby, micro-services vs. monoliths, cogn [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-6-rails-after-the-robots-chad-fowler-on-ai-as-the-ne) [![Evaluating LLMs with Leva](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_5-90ff2e4c042fac090f256110b4c5ed5918a818b6879a2f3f8177fbbfccd0f64f.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-5-evaluating-llms-with-leva) Episode 5 August 26, 2025 ### [Evaluating LLMs with Leva](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-5-evaluating-llms-with-leva) with Kieran Klassen In this episode of the Ruby AI Podcast, host Valentino Stoll talks with special guest Kieran, a prominent figure in the Ruby AI space. Kieran recently gave a talk at the San Francisco Ruby Meetup about his new gem, Leva, which focuses on LLM evaluations in Ruby. Kieran discusses his background, his passion for AI and Ruby, as well as his journey in building AI products, including his tool Cora, which helps manage email inboxes by categorizing and summarizing emails using AI. Together, Valentino [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-5-evaluating-llms-with-leva) [![Roasting Ruby AI Workflows with Obie Fernandez](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_4-13d9b963c02b50899aca602f75ab24578a08fe3490d5fd2606d353367f26014a.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-4-roasting-ruby-ai-workflows-with-obie-fernandez) Episode 4 August 12, 2025 ### [Roasting Ruby AI Workflows with Obie Fernandez](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-4-roasting-ruby-ai-workflows-with-obie-fernandez) with Obie Fernandez Ruby legend Obie Fernandez joins hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo to unveil Roast—the new open-source Ruby framework for declaring reliable AI workflows—and celebrate the 1.0 release of its engine library, Raix. The trio dig into agent swarms, prompt-engineering best practices, code-base refactors, and why unleashing creativity matters more than ever in an AI-driven future." [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-4-roasting-ruby-ai-workflows-with-obie-fernandez) [![Active Agent with Justin Bowen](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_3-fa885641840b45f25ad9be2dad0c5a789ea2aaa9cee07a4504cf4bcc89885039.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-3-active-agent-with-justin-bowen) Episode 3 July 07, 2025 ### [Active Agent with Justin Bowen](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-3-active-agent-with-justin-bowen) with Justin Bowen Seventeen-year Ruby veteran Justin Bowen joins hosts Valentino Stoll and Joe Leo to unveil Active Agent—a Rails-native framework that treats every agent like a controller and every prompt like a view, letting you weave LLMs, vector search, and business logic straight into MVC. [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-3-active-agent-with-justin-bowen) [![Sublayer and Artificial Ruby with Scott Werner](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_2-35a72d9a8ee60de44c0223f06e26eb67e01531b864eb6a1b52a651cf50c179c8.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-2-sublayer-and-artificial-ruby-with-scott-werner) Episode 2 June 10, 2025 ### [Sublayer and Artificial Ruby with Scott Werner](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-2-sublayer-and-artificial-ruby-with-scott-werner) with Scott Werner Scott Werner—author of the Works on My Machine newsletter and creator of the Sublayer AI-agent framework—joins Valentino and Joe for a fast-moving conversation on how Rubyists are bending large-language models to their will. We unpack Sublayer’s “generators + actions” architecture, the delightfully chaotic Monkey’s Paw prompt-driven web framework, and Phoenix’s AI-generated test suites, all while debating what remains uniquely human in an age of code that writes itself. If you care about Ruby, r [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-2-sublayer-and-artificial-ruby-with-scott-werner) [![Beyond Chat: Phoenix Tests, Ruby Agents & the AI Tipping Point](https://www.defmethod.com/assets/podcast/the_ruby_ai_podcast_episode_1-ff975c80d2ec390558d3f0ddecf455b8b1e3e4432d2bdace278ee0e04b529ae3.jpg)](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-1-beyond-chat-phoenix-tests-ruby-agents-the-ai-tippi) Episode 1 May 28, 2025 ### [Beyond Chat: Phoenix Tests, Ruby Agents & the AI Tipping Point](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-1-beyond-chat-phoenix-tests-ruby-agents-the-ai-tippi) Valentino Stoll and co-host Joe Leo kick off The Ruby AI Podcast with a candid deep-dive into what it really takes to ship AI-powered products in Ruby today. From the origin story of Joe’s test-writing automation platform Phoenix to the surge of new Ruby-first agent libraries, the duo explore why the community is approaching a tipping point, how to escape “chat-bot-only” thinking, and where reactive, evaluation-driven tooling is headed next. Along the way they trade war stories about semver mish [Listen & Read Transcript →](https://www.defmethod.com/podcast/episode-1-beyond-chat-phoenix-tests-ruby-agents-the-ai-tippi)